[CannonBallGuy]

Well, I've always been a mac fan, but will buy a PC soon for a few reasons... mostly because I am going to need to be able to do uni work at home which will prove awkward on my mac (some apps won't run on OS X, I have XP installed on the iMac too, but with a very small partition... Having a real PC around would just be easier. ).

I'm pretty much decided on buying parts an assembling the machine myself.
A while ago I bought a HD and an enclosure and assembled that, so I have _some_ (albeit very minimal) experience with this kind of thing. Also, I'll be building a PC as part of my uni course either shortly before or shortly after I build my own - so whichever comes first will serve as practice for the second. :P
I should also be able to save myself a bit of cash by purchasing parts - right?

I'm looking to spend no more than £500. Something closer to £400 would be better, in fact.

I have done a little research and picked out some items that seem good, but as a mac fan boy, you must realise I understand very little about hardware... A few weeks ago, if you had asked me for a list of vital PC components, the list would have been at least one item short.

I'll be using the machine for gaming, a lot. Currently I play games like Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike: Source, World of Warcraft, Black and White 2, etc. I'd love it if the machine I ended up with was able to play new games that come out in 2-3 years time - I would be happy to make one or two small upgrades, graphics card and/or RAM, in the future, if needed.
I'll most likely run XP as my OS, possibly alongside a flavour of Linux - debian most likely. I'll be avoiding Vista.

Here's what I am thinking about right now:

Gigabyte GA-P31-DS3L Motherboard - £50
Intel Core 2 Duo E4400 2.0ghz - £75
Thermaltake Jungle512 CPU cooler - £20 – (1)
Tagan CS 188A ATX Case - £?? - (2)
ThermalTake TR2 Power Supply - £40
Crucial Rendition 1GB DDR2-800 RAM - £30 - (3)
WD Caviar 500GB SATA Hard Drive - £75 - (4)
KDS 19" LCD K-92BW - £??? - (5)
BioStar Geforce 8600GT 512MB - £70? - (6)


(1) – Not entirely sure about this cooler, it was recommended to me, but a review I found says it is very loud. I'd probably get really annoyed at a loud fan so I guess this isn't the one for me. I'd love it if someone can recommend another quieter product for the same rough amount of money!

(2) – Again, not sure about this – can't find a price for it to start with. Again, suggestions are really appreciated. I'm not looking for a fancy gaming case, can't afford to waste money on something that will be out of sigh under my desk. It'd be great if it was the sort of case that kept the noise down. A couple USB 2 ports and a couple firewire ports would rock – don't know what else to say – the case is just the box you put everything In, right? What more is there to it?

(3) – Haven't heard of this make before but again, it was recommended. I know Kingston make RAM and they are a brand I would trust – should I go with them? Secondly, I was told I would only need 1 GB to run the games I play currently under XP and that It would be a good idea to wait until I really needed more (presumably a second GB) before buying it, as the price for RAM is constantly dropping. I'm happy with all that except that I'm not sure 1GB is enough to run TF2, CS:S, WoW, etc completely smoothly. What do you think?

(4) – 500 GB is going to be way more than I need, even for a couple years – but drives are so cheap nowadays... And there is kind of a premium involved, so a 500GB drive is not nearly double the price of a 250 GB. I think I might use this 500GB drive in the enclosure I mentioned in my preamble way back up there and use the 250GB drive that is currently in that enclosure as the drive for my PC. My 250 GB (just opened it up to find out, lol) is a WD Caviar SE, Model: WD2500JB-5REA0, which should be a good one as I made sure of that when I bought. Let me know if you think I'd be better off using the 500GB drive mentioned, or any other drive, in my PC...

(5) – Another recommendation here, no clue how good it is and can't find a price. So, suggestions for screens are very welcome – my iMac is 20" and I wouldn't want my PC monitor to be any bigger, not enough desk space.

(6) – Can't find a price for the BioStar card, but other Geforce 8600GTs seem to start at £60 and go way up... I'm pretty sure the 8600GT is a good card, right?

Of course, advice on everything would be fantastic. Like I said, this is a real whole new experience to me so I need all the help I can get to not mess something up royally.
Not mentioned at all in my list above is a DVD Burner. Didn't get any recommendation for one and didn't get around to trying to find a good one so suggestions for one of those would also be a great help.

Thanks in advance!

*Edit*: Just realised I didn't mention mouse and keyboard... I'd be looking for a gaming mouse but not one of those £100 uber sensitive things. As long as it's not a crappy £5 thing from PCWorld and it's pretty responsive, it'll suit me I guess.
Same goes for the keyboard, something a little above "Basic"... So if you want to suggest something for each of those, great, if not I'm sure I can find something.

[alex]

Originally Posted by CannonBallGuy Well, I've always been a mac fan, but will buy a PC soon for a few reasons... mostly because I am going to need to be able to do uni work at home which will prove awkward on my mac (some apps won't run on OS X, I have XP installed on the iMac too, but with a very small partition... Having a real PC around would just be easier. ). I'm pretty much decided on buying parts an assembling the machine myself. A while ago I bought a HD and an enclosure and assembled that, so I have _some_ (albeit very minimal) experience with this kind of thing. Also, I'll be building a PC as part of my uni course either shortly before or shortly after I build my own - so whichever comes first will serve as practice for the second. :P I should also be able to save myself a bit of cash by purchasing parts - right? Correctomundo! And Kudos for having a go yourself at building I'm looking to spend no more than £500. Something closer to £400 would be better, in fact. I have done a little research and picked out some items that seem good, but as a mac fan boy, you must realise I understand very little about hardware... A few weeks ago, if you had asked me for a list of vital PC components, the list would have been at least one item short. I'll be using the machine for gaming, a lot. Currently I play games like Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike: Source, World of Warcraft, Black and White 2, etc. I'd love it if the machine I ended up with was able to play new games that come out in 2-3 years time - I would be happy to make one or two small upgrades, graphics card and/or RAM, in the future, if needed. I'll most likely run XP as my OS, possibly alongside a flavour of Linux - debian most likely. I'll be avoiding Vista. Here's what I am thinking about right now: Gigabyte GA-P31-DS3L Motherboard - £50 - Decent board Intel Core 2 Duo E4400 2.0ghz - £75 - Well specced, the extra cache of the E6 and Q6 series core2's make no difference in gaming. But you can get this cpu cheaper than £75 or you could get this This is just an example, the moral here: shop around. Thermaltake Jungle512 CPU cooler - £20 – (1) Boo! Bin it. Arctic cooling freezer 7 pro. About the best cpu hsf on the market today, and cheaper than the 'Jungle' Tagan CS 188A ATX Case - £?? - (2) - pretty much personal preference but for a good, cheap case (and I do mean good) have a look for the Jeantech Phong 2 ThermalTake TR2 Power Supply - £40 - Good find and well spec'd; right wattage for your quoted build. Crucial Rendition 1GB DDR2-800 RAM - £30 - (3) - Decent ram. WD Caviar 500GB SATA Hard Drive - £75 - (4) - Samsung spinpoint T166, faster, quieter and cheaper. £62 KDS 19" LCD K-92BW - £??? - (5) - No experience of this screen, anyone? BioStar Geforce 8600GT 512MB - £70? - (6) - Bin the card. You're paying for extra ram that will never see use. That amount of ram on a card is only useful for gaming at higher resolutions, something the spec of the card isn't capable of. Save some money and go for a 256mb version, unless you're getting a very good deal on this one. (1) – Not entirely sure about this cooler, it was recommended to me, but a review I found says it is very loud. I'd probably get really annoyed at a loud fan so I guess this isn't the one for me. I'd love it if someone can recommend another quieter product for the same rough amount of money! (2) – Again, not sure about this – can't find a price for it to start with. Again, suggestions are really appreciated. I'm not looking for a fancy gaming case, can't afford to waste money on something that will be out of sigh under my desk. It'd be great if it was the sort of case that kept the noise down. A couple USB 2 ports and a couple firewire ports would rock – don't know what else to say – the case is just the box you put everything In, right? What more is there to it? (3) – Haven't heard of this make before but again, it was recommended. I know Kingston make RAM and they are a brand I would trust – should I go with them? Secondly, I was told I would only need 1 GB to run the games I play currently under XP and that It would be a good idea to wait until I really needed more (presumably a second GB) before buying it, as the price for RAM is constantly dropping. I'm happy with all that except that I'm not sure 1GB is enough to run TF2, CS:S, WoW, etc completely smoothly. What do you think? 1gb is fine if running XP, its XP's sweetspot for gaming. If you'd've said Vista I would have advised 2gb. (4) – 500 GB is going to be way more than I need, even for a couple years – but drives are so cheap nowadays... And there is kind of a premium involved, so a 500GB drive is not nearly double the price of a 250 GB. I think I might use this 500GB drive in the enclosure I mentioned in my preamble way back up there and use the 250GB drive that is currently in that enclosure as the drive for my PC. My 250 GB (just opened it up to find out, lol) is a WD Caviar SE, Model: WD2500JB-5REA0, which should be a good one as I made sure of that when I bought. Let me know if you think I'd be better off using the 500GB drive mentioned, or any other drive, in my PC... (5) – Another recommendation here, no clue how good it is and can't find a price. So, suggestions for screens are very welcome – my iMac is 20" and I wouldn't want my PC monitor to be any bigger, not enough desk space. If going 20" I'd recommend a 320mb 8800GTS for gaming, or at the very least a 8600GTS. So as you're on a tight budget I'd be looking for a 19" 4:3. Again personal preference but look for a grey-grey time of around 8ms-12ms, 300:1 brightness and 700:1 ratio. (6) – Can't find a price for the BioStar card, but other Geforce 8600GTs seem to start at £60 and go way up... I'm pretty sure the 8600GT is a good card, right? Err, no, it's not. It's a low end gaming card. If you're only interested in DX9 gaming I'd be tempted to look at nvidia's 7*** series of cards, anything at a 7600GT or over on a 19" screen. Of course, advice on everything would be fantastic. Like I said, this is a real whole new experience to me so I need all the help I can get to not mess something up royally. Not mentioned at all in my list above is a DVD Burner. Didn't get any recommendation for one and didn't get around to trying to find a good one so suggestions for one of those would also be a great help. Pioneer 112 or 212. Around £18. Thanks in advance! *Edit*: Just realised I didn't mention mouse and keyboard... I'd be looking for a gaming mouse but not one of those £100 uber sensitive things. As long as it's not a crappy £5 thing from PCWorld and it's pretty responsive, it'll suit me I guess. Same goes for the keyboard, something a little above "Basic"... So if you want to suggest something for each of those, great, if not I'm sure I can find something.

I use a standard MS optical and it more than suffices. Also use a MS ergonomic keyboard and that too is good. Personal preference again.

Have you got an o.s disc? Just checking as I don't see it mentioned and at around £60 for XP home it's a large chunk of your budget.

[CannonBallGuy]

Thanks for the reply, alex.

The tips on the processor, cooler and case are great, thanks.

I went with WD for the drive as I believed they were well known for being very reliable - will I notice any difference with the Samsung?

Can you suggest a good 17"-20" screen?

"Higher resolutions?". I am running at 1680x1050 on my 20" imac, so would do the same if I had a 20" monitor for my PC. Would that warrant the 512MB card?

Not sure if I am just lookin at DirectX9 gaming, like I said, I play games varying from Counter Strike Source to World of Warcraft, and I would hope the machine will be capable of playing new games in 2-3 years time too. And, as I said above, possibly on a resolution of 1680x1050 - should I stick with the 8600GT or maybe even find a better one?

Thanks for the DVD drive tip!

Yep, I have XP already.

Thanks again, alex, your post is very helpful!

[alex]

Originally Posted by CannonBallGuy Thanks for the reply, alex. The tips on the processor, cooler and case are great, thanks. I went with WD for the drive as I believed they were well known for being very reliable - will I notice any difference with the Samsung? Can you suggest a good 17"-20" screen? "Higher resolutions?". I am running at 1680x1050 on my 20" imac, so would do the same if I had a 20" monitor for my PC. Would that warrant the 512MB card? Not sure if I am just lookin at DirectX9 gaming, like I said, I play games varying from Counter Strike Source to World of Warcraft, and I would hope the machine will be capable of playing new games in 2-3 years time too. And, as I said above, possibly on a resolution of 1680x1050 - should I stick with the 8600GT or maybe even find a better one? Thanks for the DVD drive tip! Yep, I have XP already. Thanks again, alex, your post is very helpful!

Hey up. Thanks for you comments.

Firstly, Sorry for the layout of my first reply. I've no idea why I did it that way other than I was very drunk at the time. Hope you caught the links I provided.

Anyway, regarding the hdd; The Samsung is faster than the Raptor X at loading games. As you quoted gaming as your primary usage I thought it would be useful to you. But I fully understand personal preference. The WD is in no way a bad drive but it is more expensive than the Samsung and has slower read times.

About the screen; you need to decide what size you want as 17-19" screens have a much lower resolution than 20" screens. So you'll need a more powerful card to game on a 20" screen. But rule of thumb: If you go for a 17-19" screen get a 256mb 8600GTS. If you go for a 20" get a 320mb 8800GTS. Both cards are also DX9 compatible as well as DX10. There are freeware apps being developed to run DX10 games on XP but I don't know of any that are out yet. But as the games you quote are DX9 it's not a cause for concern.

For a 20" monitor I'd highly recommend an Asus PW201. Quite pricey, or was last time I looked. Does require a bit of fiddling with the brightness and ratio out of the box but once you've got that sorted it's an awesome screen.

For a 19" screen (same resolution as a 17" so there's no point going for the smaller size) I'd recommend this For the money it's a superb find. Can't emphasise enough just how cool this screen is, and cheap for the spec. Got one of these the other week for a colleague; no ghosting, dvi/vga connectors, 5ms (ok, its an arbitary measure). The build quality isn't all that but as you won't be taking it anywhere I don't think that matters.

[CannonBallGuy]

Originally Posted by alex Hey up. Thanks for you comments. Firstly, Sorry for the layout of my first reply. I've no idea why I did it that way other than I was very drunk at the time. Hope you caught the links I provided.

Yep, think I got both. :)

Originally Posted by alex Anyway, regarding the hdd; The Samsung is faster than the Raptor X at loading games. As you quoted gaming as your primary usage I thought it would be useful to you. But I fully understand personal preference. The WD is in no way a bad drive but it is more expensive than the Samsung and has slower read times.

Ok, I'll look more into that, for sure.

Originally Posted by alex About the screen; you need to decide what size you want as 17-19" screens have a much lower resolution than 20" screens. So you'll need a more powerful card to game on a 20" screen. But rule of thumb: If you go for a 17-19" screen get a 256mb 8600GTS. If you go for a 20" get a 320mb 8800GTS. Both cards are also DX9 compatible as well as DX10. There are freeware apps being developed to run DX10 games on XP but I don't know of any that are out yet. But as the games you quote are DX9 it's not a cause for concern.

Ok, good point. But will those two cards be good enough to play games in 2 years time?
Say I get a 19" screen with a 256mb 8600GTS, how will the machine cope with games 2 years down the line, if at all? I mean - is it worth looking at a higher range gaming card?

Originally Posted by alex For a 20" monitor I'd highly recommend an Asus PW201. Quite pricey, or was last time I looked. Does require a bit of fiddling with the brightness and ratio out of the box but once you've got that sorted it's an awesome screen. For a 19" screen (same resolution as a 17" so there's no point going for the smaller size) I'd recommend this For the money it's a superb find. Can't emphasise enough just how cool this screen is, and cheap for the spec. Got one of these the other week for a colleague; no ghosting, dvi/vga connectors, 5ms (ok, its an arbitary measure). The build quality isn't all that but as you won't be taking it anywhere I don't think that matters.

Well, you say there is no reason to get a 17" over a 19"... My room is only so big, you know. What with my 20" imac and my TV, I would probably not want a 20".
That leaves me choosing between 17" and 19" and, I think I may actually go with a 17".
You kindly linked to an Acer AL1916C, but I see they also have a "AL1716" which is 17", so I would think one of the monitors here would suit me well if I did go with a smaller screen. :)

[CannonBallGuy]

Sorry to bump this slightly old topic... Didn't fancy creating another on the same subject :)
I'd still like some advice regarding my post above this one, if possible.

I'd also love some recommendations on sites to buy parts (as I haven't found places to get some yet and would like to do some more shopping around first too) and also sites that can help me build the PC as I have practically no experience with that kind of thing...

Thanks again :)