[Carbon]

I'll "go away" when I feel like it, thanks.

You didn't say the 1200 was hot, I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean. You implied the 1200 was a good selection because Australia is hot, ignoring a argument two pages back you gave up on about ambient temperatures. Then you started discussing overclocking regardless of it being apparently so hot that even a high end midtower case can't handle it. That is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way that a 25% overclock is thermally acceptable in the conditions that you accept for the P183/CM 1000 (a full tower case with 4x 120mm fans) being poor selections.

However, you seem to think that despite having never provided acceptable refutations for nearly all the objections I listed that I'm the one that needs to be "upfront" and that I need to satisfy your ridiculous goal-post moving every time you cede something (now overclocking, what next, cache size?). If you're going to metaphorically take your toys and go home then follow through on it, otherwise stop waffling between debate and faux-ridicule.

[Krlll]

Once again you add nothing.

I know I didnt say the 1200 was hot,you said that I did!

I have refuted all your points including that silly case you recommended.
The case and cooler I recommend will hopefully reduce the heat issues,at least he has a chance at overclocking his PC something very unadvisable with your case recommendation.

And why they hell shouldnt I talk about overclocking?
If this is all about reducing cost for the buyer then spending some extra money on better equipment will be a great investment(Seen any 4ghz CPUs about?How about an i7 920 that runs faster than an insanely priced Extreme Edition?)

Maybe you should go and update your recommended build page and stop pestering me with your pedantic crap.

[Carbon]

Again, you address nothing I've actually said. Your argument now is predicated on overclocking yet you admit that it's unlikely that will actually happen. You don't address the case issue other than claiming you did. Your discussion of overclocking is a load of platitudes. You cannot consider price/performance when that performance may not even exist and the increase you are claiming does not even make a difference in the intended role of the system. If you feel you're being 'pestered' then you have the option of not posting. That's the entire point of having a internet forum.

[4D(Fordy(Ford) Ollie]

Bubba/Danny:

You/Bubba are/is right, Creative's cards won't work. However Asus cards are better anyway IMO and do work with Vista.

On your budget, you're probably looking at the Sonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe (the top model)

Which is very nice :P

And Krll, it is considerably better than anything you'd find onboard, and unmissable with a build of this proportion.

Also the case does not and will not make as much difference as you make out. So it's cool (as in temps) so what? So would any case with 7 fans in.

Take a P183, dremel out some holes for more fans, and I doubt you'd find a difference that would make it worth spending the extra unnecessary premium for a hulk of metal, plastic and flashing lights with a label saying 1200. Then an identical label serving as a price tag.

[Krlll]

Originally Posted by Carbon

Again, you address nothing I've actually said. Your argument now is predicated on overclocking yet you admit that it's unlikely that will actually happen. You don't address the case issue other than claiming you did. Your discussion of overclocking is a load of platitudes. You cannot consider price/performance when that performance may not even exist and the increase you are claiming does not even make a difference in the intended role of the system. If you feel you're being 'pestered' then you have the option of not posting. That's the entire point of having a internet forum.

Man you dont give up do you?
I have addressed everything you have said.
My argumnet does not rely on overclocking alone...
Larger case was a factor,remember?
For space as much as cooling

Qaud core CPU was another consideration, remember?

Where did I admit that overclocking was unlikely to happen?
Thats not the first time you have put words in my mouth.


The performance may only exist in theory but 1000s of people from techie to newbie can achieve these results.

And maybe you missed the link earlier about clock speeds and improvement in gaming,which is the intended use of this system!

I had fully intended leaving and not replying to you again but as I said I cannot resist when you constantly ignore the things I say,saying I have refuted nothing,misinform people or blatantly omit some facts that dont fit into your precious perfect build guide and on more than one occasion quote me as saying things I never said at all.

If you feel like I am moving the goalposts got get a hankie off someone.
I started talking about overclocking because the more I thought about this build the more things came to mind that could improve it at little extra cost.

[Krlll]

Originally Posted by 4D(Fordy(Ford) Ollie

Bubba/Danny:

You/Bubba are/is right, Creative's cards won't work. However Asus cards are better anyway IMO and do work with Vista.

On your budget, you're probably looking at the Sonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe (the top model)

Which is very nice :P

And Krll, it is considerably better than anything you'd find onboard, and unmissable with a build of this proportion.

Also the case does not and will not make as much difference as you make out. So it's cool (as in temps) so what? So would any case with 7 fans in.

Take a P183, dremel out some holes for more fans, and I doubt you'd find a difference that would make it worth spending the extra unnecessary premium for a hulk of metal, plastic and flashing lights with a label saying 1200. Then an identical label serving as a price tag.

#
Haha why would you dremel out holes in a new case when you could just buy one with more fans?
And whats with this overpriced case crap?
The Antec 1200 is £137.99 on OCUK and the P183(sans cut out holes and extra fans lol) is £113.99 on OCUK.
£25 isnt going to break the bank is it?

[Hybr!d]

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Hybr!d

LOL when I saw that you had the last post I was worried you were closing it down. Glad you didn't. Not only is this fun to watch, but I am learning a lot following the links. I think when all is sadi and done and the dust clears, I'll take the info from the "opposing sides" condense it and write a compare and contrast article on the two schools of thought...............

BTW don't bogart that popcorn, pass the bag.

[Carbon]

There is no opposing side. There's literally nothing to rebut at this point. I have already discussed my reasoning (being able to overclock and not being able to use anything less than the 1200 are mutually incompatible even if you assume the Magical Antec Refrigerator theorem, the CPU is useless for gaming, the clock speed increase over the X3 720/X4 955 is negligible, other parts are more useful, "space" is a useless selling point as every case has had enough space for video cards since introduction of the G80 in 2007) and the only response I have gotten is either goal-post shifting, you're inflexible and you hold too closely to your guide' (no shit, who do you think wrote it?) or 'you're wrong'. I'll post more if any real solid [h]ardocp-tier crap shows up but there's no reason to continue Krill's rhetorical pissing match over who said what. At the end of the day the OP should buy a X4 955 system with a SSD and a lot of RAM and put the rest of his money into a file server or a later build.

[Krlll]

Once again you put words in my mouth.
I did not say anything about the Antec 1200 being the only case he could use.


The CPU is not useless for gaming as I pointed out in an earlier post.
RIGHT HERE!

"space" is a useless selling point as every case has had enough space for video cards since introduction of the G80 in 2007)

More disinformation on your part.
That is utter nonsense,there are countles cases too small to accomadate the larger GPUs.
Need Proof?
Here

I'll post more if any real solid [h]ardocp-tier crap shows up but there's no reason to continue Krill's rhetorical pissing match over who said what. At the end of the day the OP should buy a X4 955 system with a SSD and a lot of RAM and put the rest of his money into a file server or a later build

Here let me quote you to save some time.

If you want to play "I'm not talking to you" or if the OP wants your input that's fine but I'm going to keep correcting misinformation.