My first computer build, need some recommendations!

**theicfire** · #1 24th Nov 2008, 10:58

Alright, so I am waiting for black friday to buy all (most) of my pc components to build a new pc. This is the first pc I have ever built but my dad is an electrical engineer, which will hopefully help. I basically want a computer that can game (including crysis).. but in all honesty I will probably end up just doing web and programming stuff.. but still want to game every now and then.

Budget: Currently the build up there is <$500 so trying to keep it that way.
Brands: No preference.
Multitasking: Not ridiculous amounts but I want to be able to.
Gaming: I actually never game but I definitely want to be able to (and I will try it for awhile)
Calculations: No
Overclocking: I don't want to over clock but it would be nice if I had the option (currently the mobo and processor are said to be oc compatible.
Storage: Eh. Ive never filled a computer to 80gb but there are cheap hds that have way more...so whatever.
Legacy Support: No, this is a completely new build.
Operating System: Do you want Windows XP or Vista, or Linux compatibility? All of them :)
Case: I'm not educated enough to know what type of case I want.
Accessories: Already got'em.
Recycled Components: If anything, just hd.
Monitor: Got one (22”).
Stores: Trustable stores.
Location: US

Anyways, this is what I am thinking
Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119068
$44.99
OR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811146041
$30 till 11/26/08

Front fan? (Don't know if I need this or not)
~$10

Power supply
http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-W0...6622382&sr=8-1
$29.99(Off newegg for $20.99 till 11/26/08)

Processor-
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Q6600-Qu...6616741&sr=8-1
$175.99

Fan? (If I don't want the one that comes with the processor)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186134
$26.99

Memory (memory is memory... right?)
~$20 (tiger direct)

Video Card
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4035118&sku=E145-9500&srkey=E145-9500
$44.99

Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358&Tpk=GA-EP45-UD3P
$110

Harddrive? (I have a 80gb in my old computer atm)
~$40

Excluding monitor/mouse/keyboard/speakers, am I missing anything? Would some of these not go together well? Is there anything I should get instead of what I listed? What memory would go with that motherboard (I looked on newegg but they didn't have the motherboard listed in their memory finder). If I were to get dual gpus or a better one, would it be able to play intense games like crysis at 40fps+?

Thankyou so much! (And please, if there is one thing you can answer, tell me if the case and power supply are good, because the sale ends 11/26).

**thingie2** · #2 24th Nov 2008, 12:13

I would start with a case, but it's mainly due to preference, however there are a few that people recommend here, but I can't remember which they are so i'll leave them

Front fan: It depends what case you get

PSU: I would strongly recommend a Corsair, or a PC Power and Cooling unit, they are among the best there are.

CPU: Not the best choice, even if you need a quad, which, depending on what sort of web programing you do, you might, or might not, you will either want an E8400/E8500, or a quad from the Q8xxx/9xxx series.

CPU Fan: Go for one of these they perform better, and is actually cheaper at the moment.

RAM: Not all RAM is the same, you will need to determine if you require DDR2 or DDR3 first (I highly recommend DDR2) and depending on what OS, and if you are going to overclock, will also make a difference.

GFX Card: I would say go for something like this, I know it's quite a bit more than the one you said, but it will perform much better, and will allow you to not upgrade it for alot longer.

HDD: Go for one of these. Large size, and fast.

**theicfire** · #3 24th Nov 2008, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by thingie2

I would start with a case, but it's mainly due to preference, however there are a few that people recommend here, but I can't remember which they are so i'll leave them

Front fan: It depends what case you get

PSU: I would strongly recommend a Corsair, or a PC Power and Cooling unit, they are among the best there are.

CPU: Not the best choice, even if you need a quad, which, depending on what sort of web programing you do, you might, or might not, you will either want an E8400/E8500, or a quad from the Q8xxx/9xxx series.

CPU Fan: Go for one of these they perform better, and is actually cheaper at the moment.

RAM: Not all RAM is the same, you will need to determine if you require DDR2 or DDR3 first (I highly recommend DDR2) and depending on what OS, and if you are going to overclock, will also make a difference.

GFX Card: I would say go for something like this, I know it's quite a bit more than the one you said, but it will perform much better, and will allow you to not upgrade it for alot longer.

HDD: Go for one of these. Large size, and fast.

Thanks for the response!

Front fan: I was referring to a front fan specifically for the case I mentioned (There is a place for the fan but no fan there)

PSU: What is wrong with my current selection? I know the wattage is low, but I will only have one hd and one dvd player. Shouldn't 430w be enough? According to newegg, everything else about the psu seems to be fine.

CPU: I think you're swimming against the current here :P I havn't heard many people say its a bad choice in terms of quad cores. I have recieved suggestions on going to a core 2 which is cheaper and putting the money saved into the gpu, but I want to be future-ready. The web programming is not very intensive at all, I just want a processor that I won't have to upgrade till years to come.

Cpu Fan: I might choose that one instead. How do I know it will fit in my case?

Ram: Definately ddr2, 800mhz/cheap ram.

GFX: Wouldn't it be better/cheaper to put in dual 9500 GTs? (Not sure how my psu would like it though)

HD: Why is it better than others? The only advantage I see is the 32mb cache. What does this mean? Looking at the ratings at newegg, I will probably get it though :)

Thankyou so much!

**thingie2** · #4 24th Nov 2008, 13:26

PSU: The wattage doesn't rearly matter (up to a point) it's the +12V Current rating that matters the most, which is only 18A on that PSU, which isn't enough for a decent GFX card, and the Corsair and PC P&C PSU's are very stable, and are unlikely to blow on you.

CPU: Ok, well if your wanting to get it to last you for a while, I would still recommend a quad from the Q8xxx or Q9xxx series, they perform much better, but if the web programming isn't intensive, you will probably be better off saving the cash and getting a dual.

CPU Fan: That fan will fit in virtually all cases, especially if you get a good one.

RAM: Yes, DDR2 800MHz is best, unless you are wanting to overclock alot, then I would say go for 1066MHz, but even with 800MHz, you will be able to overclock a fair amount.

GFX: In almost all situations, you will get better performance, and will use less power, for a single card at a similar price, than dual card configurations.

HD: The main advantage is that it's dual platter, however most HDD's have atleast 3, this increases performance speed.

**serverguy** · #5 24th Nov 2008, 13:46

Grr how annoying. I just lost a huge post I had written for you.

But I shall start again.

First of all, let me explain about the PSU. No, let me quote Carbon for speeds sake, as I just wrote all this once

Quote:

Despite its relative simplicity (AC mains power in, DC power out) PSUs are one of the most, if not THE most, important things to criticise in your build. The PSU market is the gamiest show in town: there are bad manufacturers, misleading wattage totals, and cheap capacitors everywhere.

If you want to see why a budget PSU is a bad idea, check out this. Yes, the best case scenario is severe, likely fatal, and widespread hardware damage, and the worst case scenario is sparks and a big black mark on your wall. If given a choice between two newbies to building, one with some $9.99 950W PSU and a 9600GT and E8400, then another with a Corsair or PC Power & Cooling or Corsair 650W and some worthless 8400GS and Pentium D or something, I would infinitely prefer yelling at the latter about his poor choices than getting hit by liquid heavy metal capacitor death-spit flying into my vulnerable upper torso. I've had enough of that in chemistry classes. Most of the time if a PSU goes bad, it'll just go ZAP and die, but overall it's not a risk you want to take.

Modular cabling is a good thing. Modular cabling means that you don't have thousands of unruly power snakes blocking your fans, impeding airflow, eating your mice and all that stuff snakes do, except this time with ELECTRICITY running through them. In seriousness, it means you only have to plug in what you need - ATX, 4 pin, PCI-E, SATA, maybe fans on the molex connectors. However, think of this in the terms of a Venn diagram. The big red circle on the left is modular PSUs, the tiny dot on the right are quality PSUs. If I had to hit the intersection of the two in a darts game, I'd probably walk out. It's that small of a subset: you really need to be even more vigilant looking at modular PSUs than the standard.

Luckily, there's a few bright spots in this polluted sea of failure. Corsair has recently moved on from making mediocre memory to making about the best power supplies in the business, not only in reliability and power but in price. Granted, they're mostly a front for Seasonic as an OEM, but who cares?

Let's use their 450W PSU as a way to explain why shopping around based on wattages alone is not a good idea. Corsair's 450W, along with some other good brands' 500Ws, can easily power a quad-core CPU, 4GB of RAM, and a 4850. You might be wondering why this is so: for example, the 700W OCZ GameXStream is a big seller, for nearly double the (without rebate!) price of the 450W Corsair.

The answer is that wattages are nothing but a convenient but overly general yardstick that has been hijacked by poor manufacturers. Let me explain how this works. Without getting too technical, the wattage rating of a PSU is based on the amount of amps it can put out. There are three main types of current that a PSU outputs, at separate voltages: +3.3V, +5V, and +12V. Back in the day, everyone was happy living on the +5V rail. However, there was trouble in Olde Motherboardland, as when Intel decided to introduce the power-hog Pentium 4, everything began switching over to +12V. PSU manufacturers had a problem - most of their amps were on a +5V rail, so GPU manufacturers began overstating their wattage totals to make sure people wouldn't try to run +12V heavy graphics cards on +5V heavy power supplies.

This is no longer the case.

What you want to look for is not the total wattage. Use it as a benchmark. Dodgy PSU manufacturers will play the old game of putting more amps on the +5V rail, which is useless for your gaming setup. So what you want to do is see how many of the rated watts are derived from the +12V rail: Corsair's 450W can
put out 33A on it. This is pretty good. The GameXStream, by contrast, has four +12V rails only rated at 18A. While if you add these together it sounds lovely, it's not - there is no possible way to balance components across these rails satisfactorily. This is bad. You'll also notice it puts out 36A on the +3.3V rail and 30A on the +5V rail. The +5V rail is commonly eaten up by lower power devices such as USB. So at least your flash drive will still work as your SLI setup chokes on dust.

A colleague of mine at the Steam forums put it this elegantly:

that PSU has four +12v rails each limited to 18amps...that is not a good thing...as to make use of anything more than 18amp of +12v power(that is only 216watts) you would very carefully need to design a computer that had four different sets components balanced to run off each one of those rails, and still no component could use more than the safety limited 18amps....say the motherboard(with CPU and RAM) is running off one rail, and then the video card off another, and then what? will the CD/DVD/hard drives and fans also need allocated as much +12v power as either the CPU/RAM or video card, then what is that 4th rail doing ?

So what's the conclusion?

Look for more than 25A on single-rail systems and 20A on dual-rail systems. Avoid quad-rail systems like the plague. Or, if you don't want to get technical, just buy a Corsair or PC Power and Cooling PSU. 450W will be fine for a single card setup, 650W+ is recommended for SLI or crossfire.

There are other brands out there. But they can't touch Corsair, and they can barely touch PCP&C (who has been not up to snuff since OCZ bought them imo). When in doubt just buy them. I may look like a fanboy here, but they have probably been the best thing to hit this market for a while.

So, basically, the PSU is arguably the most important component in your build, and skimping on it is just a plain bad idea.

As for the case, it is up to you to be honest. Performance wise, to be honest you'll notice very little difference except for cases with very poorly designed airflow.
I recommend the Antec Three Hundred. It is an awesome case for the money.

Saying that, either of the cases you mentioned would be fine as well, and added a fan in front of the hard drive cages would be a good idea.

The Arctic Cooler is a good cooler, but as thingie said, the Xigmatek beats it and is now cheaper, so you should definitely go for it. However, if you are not overclocking, you may as well just buy a retail processor with an Intel fan allready with it.

That graphics card you listed is genuine crap. At the very least go for a 9600GT. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500019
Heck, it is hardly any more expensive anyway, for a huge performance increase.

Processor. Forget the Q6600. If you must get a quad, go for the Q8200. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115055

If you will accept a dual core is better for 85% of people then get an E8400 / E8500 - and then over clock the nuts of it

That motherboard you link to is a fine choice.

Memory - going for an off brand is a bad idea. Stick to a known brand and make sure you get at least 4 gigs. Go for PC-8500 so as you can overclock more in the future.

Hard drive - the one thingie suggested. If you look at reviews, you will see why. Also, don't use your old hard drive. You never know when it will crap out.

So overall I would suggest something like so:

E8500 / Q8200
P45 Motherboard
Corsair 450w VX Series
9600GT / ATI 4850 depending on budget
Antec Three Hundred - personal choice here
4GBs PC-8500 RAM with decent timings.

**theicfire** · #6 24th Nov 2008, 15:08

Alright, after all your help and help from other forums, here is my newer build-

~~~~~~~Didn't change~~~~~~~
Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811146041
$30 till 11/26/08
Front fan?
$10
Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358&Tpk=GA-EP45-UD3P
$110

~~~~~~Did change~~~~~~~~
Power supply 450w corsair
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139003
$60
OR
550w corsair
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139004
$78—I know this is better but do I need it?
I don't really understand the psu thing but I got the main point- buy corsair and get 25a+ on 12v.

CPU e7300 2.66ghz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115132
$120

CPU fan XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835233003
$22-- Or do without

Video Card (both 9600GT)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130360
$65.99
OR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130360
$70
(help me choose)

Ram- 2gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145034
$9.99 (Not sure about memory compatibility, isn't on motherboard or memory lists)

HDD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136319
$85

Already have dvd drive and windows.

Still under $500
Overview of price changes
Lower: memory, cpu, fan(hardly)
Higher: Video card,HDD,PSU

Max price with current config- $537
Min price (No fans, lower psu and video card)- $483
I still could go lower on hd...

Thoughts on newer build?

Thankyou so much!

**serverguy** · #7 24th Nov 2008, 15:44

Much better!

Get a front fan.

Go with the 450w PSU. That will be plenty, especially since it is a quality one that can provide a true 450w.

Good choice on the CPU. I have it's brother and it overclocks very well.

Get the Xigmatek and then you have a quieter fan and it will allow you to overclock in the future.

Get the cheapest 9600GT you can. They are all the same with different stickers.

Get another 2GB of RAM with the money you saved on the PSU. Trust me on this one, the different between 2 and 4GB or RAM is like day and night.

I'd stay with that HD, but of course, it is up to you. Just stick with Western Digital.

**theicfire** · #8 24th Nov 2008, 16:18

Thanks! Just found out memory is also compatible too.
http://www.corsair.com/configurator/...aspx?id=754031 -- bottom part

Now the question:
Name Core 2 Duo E8400 Operating Frequency 3.0GHz FSB 1333MHz L2 Cache 6MB$165

Or

Name Core 2 Duo E7300 Operating Frequency 2.66GHz FSB 1066MHz L2 Cache 3MB$120

Which one?

I see in your sig 8gb xp sp3. I heard you could only do 3gb in xp? Is that just sp2 or just a total rumor or did you change something?

Thanks!

**thingie2** · #9 24th Nov 2008, 16:26

For the CPU, for the $45 I would say it's well worth the extra clock speed, higher FSB, and higher cache, go for it, unless it will make you have to cut $45 of somewhere else to afford it all.

As for the 8GB, Serverguy I'm guessing has the 64Bit version of XP, which can access loads more RAM (around 128GB I think) than the standard 32Bit version which can only recognise a bit over 3 GB.

**theicfire** · #10 24th Nov 2008, 16:36

Well shit... all my questions have been answered now :)
Any other reccommendations would be appreciated.

Now I just have to wait till black friday, and hope the deals are good (Office depot is selling an acer 22" monitor for $130, even though I already have one I might go dual b/c it is so cheap)

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!