[Mike0001]

Does anyone agree with me that the UK should be shunning the nazi torch ritual tomorrow? OK, let the athletes compete but why provide a showcase for China like this?

Oh, and is this forum available in China and will it b e censored there?

[spot]

We did, after all, invite the Chinese to host the games and they've very nicely agreed to spend the annual budget of several African republics on infrastructure. It's churlish not to applaud them as they go by. Bravo the PRC, way to go.

[Mike0001]

Originally Posted by spot

We did, after all, invite the Chinese to host the games and they've very nicely agreed to spend the annual budget of several African republics on infrastructure. It's churlish not to applaud them as they go by. Bravo the PRC, way to go.

We invited them on the condition they cleaned up their act! They can have their games, but we don't have to applaud the torch-bearing bit! Plus, GET OUT OF TIBET!

[spot]

I shall agree with you instantly and unequivocally if you can show me the slightest evidence that "we invited them on the condition they cleaned up their act" is true. That must be the best offer you've seen all week, mate. Go for it, post it here and I'm stood shoulder to shoulder with you.

[Mike0001]

Originally Posted by spot

I shall agree with you instantly and unequivocally if you can show me the slightest evidence that "we invited them on the condition they cleaned up their act" is true. That must be the best offer you've seen all week, mate. Go for it, post it here and I'm stood shoulder to shoulder with you.

Not exactly evidence but:

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008...china17986.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/01/31/china17987.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...rssnyt&emc=rss

Are you claiming that China did not make such promises? (As conditions for support for it to host the Olympics?)

[spot]

Originally Posted by Mike0001

Not exactly evidence but:

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008...china17986.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/01/31/china17987.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...rssnyt&emc=rss

Are you claiming that China did not make such promises? (As conditions for support for it to host the Olympics?)

I was, yes. I can see the claim that “China made explicit promises about improving human rights before the Games, so it’s perfectly legitimate to ask the Chinese government to keep its word” but no indication at all of where to find the text for such promises. It strikes me as a completely unlikely thing for PRC to have done, I'd quite like to see what they said that's being interpreted this way.

[spot]

I note from the third of your cites (which wasn't there when I was replying, so this is a second post) that:

''We're disappointed the I.O.C. didn't get guarantees from the Chinese government on human rights issues before giving the Games away,'' said Sidney Jones, Asia director for the Human Rights Watch, based in New York. ''Now the burden is going to be on corporate sponsors and governments fielding teams to ensure that human rights abuses don't take place in direct association with the Games. I don't think the Games will change things on their own.''

Which rather goes along with what I said.

"Mr. Yuan said, economic progress 'will bring along advances in culture, health, education, sport and, not least of all, corresponding progress in human rights causes'. Im sure he's right, but that's more a prediction than a commitment.

[Mike0001]

Well, that's ok then! Let's send in our troups top help China!

[spot]

I'd settle for just not knocking them for legitimately policing Tibet, how's that?

[redden137]

Id say let em run it here m8, let em run the length of the country ,up and down, let all the supporters of china and its regime support the torch while its here,
BUT on one condition no police, no barriers, no road closures
with no support or help
just how the people of tibet must feel